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Webinar Recap: Analogous and Parametric Estimating Schedule Template

Please find below a transcription of the audio portion of Oliver Gildersleeve’s Analogous and Parametric Estimating Schedule Template webinar being provided by MPUG for the convenience of our members. You may wish to use this transcript for the purposes of self-paced learning, searching for specific information, and/or performing a quick review of webinar content. There may be exclusions, such as those steps included in product demonstrations. You may watch the live recording of this webinar at your convenience.

Kyle: Hello everyone and welcome today’s MPUG webinar. My name is Kyle and I’ll be the moderator today. Today’s session is eligible for one PMI PDU in technical category and the MPUG activity code for claiming this session is on the screen now. Like all MPOG webinars, the recording of this session will be posted to MPUG.com shortly after the live presentation wraps up, and all MPUG members can watch the recordings at any time and still be eligible to earn the PDU credit. All the sessions you watch on demand can be submitted to your webinar history and the live sessions you attend are automatically submitted. Within your history you can print or download your transcript certificates of completion, including the one for today, and you can access your member training history by logging on to mpug.com, click the my account button, and then click on the webinar reports link. If you have any questions during today’s presentation, please send those over at any time using the chat question box on the go to webinar control panel. We do plan to set aside some time at the end to answer the questions that you submit today.

Kyle: We’ll go ahead and get started. We’re very happy to welcome back Oliver Gildersleve today. This webinar is an update of Oliver’s MPUG presentation and schedule template provided on October 2013. The new schedule template covers both analogous and parametric estimating features. It will be available for download on the on demand webinar page that we make available shortly after the presentation ends and will also be linked in the follow up email that you’ll receive later this afternoon. This presentation will show you how to use those features of that template.

Kyle: More on Oliver. Olivier is a teacher, consultant, and mentor on Microsoft Project, and has been a technical editor on three recent books on scheduling, and works in five different areas; contractor to a federal agency, software development companies, mutual funds, medical devices and electric utility research. With that said, I’d like to welcome you back, Oliver, and at this time I’ll hand it over to you to introduce yourself a bit more and get us started with today’s presentation.

Oliver: Thank you Kyle. The objective here is to use Microsoft Project custom views to support estimated. These features and associated techniques provide a major increase in the value of Microsoft Project. Good task estimates enable good forecast of the product delivery date, but this projection is at the time of the forecast that date can change as productivity impediments, issues and change orders reveal themselves. However, date forecasting helps making decisions and prompts early schedule recoveries.

Oliver: Here’s what we will cover. I’m going to show a template for new product development projects. I’ve added three custom views to this template. I proceed the names of views with a number. We keep them in logical rather than alphabetical sequence. View 04 estimating template initial data that is estimating data based on past medium-sized project. Then a copy of the template makes a schedule for a specific future project. The 05 estimating the specific project provides median and conservative estimates. 06 estimating data improvement develops better data based on the most recent experiences. That data is then copied back into the template.

Oliver: Let’s have a look. Here’s the template, I’ve added the work column, successors, deadlines and total Slack. The extra views are 04, 05 so that your estimates are evidence-based, a particular project that you’ve made template and be back for a picture. At the end, what I’ll do is show file organizer which then enables you to copy these views consisting of groups, fields, filters and tables over to your templates or your project schedules. There are additional views here for recording, 12 through 80. They identify updates, needed, accomplishments in progress, upcoming and critical views. Estimating, let me get back to slides. There we go.

Oliver: Estimating views enabled both analogous, which is top down estimating and parametric, which is bottom up estimating. Reconciling these estimates can align expectations between executives and team members. Our source material is a tool developed in the nineties by PricewaterhouseCoopers while they had a software development contract business. Among literature, there are two Harvard Business review articles that promote estimating on history and resolve in top down and bottom up estimating. With that, we can satisfy executives who want to know how soon can they get a new product, what’ll it cost and what resources are needed. This is just an example of the parametric estimating.

Oliver: Here’s the task acceptance test plan and we did one and a half hours from the data that are input into the template. Take the one and a half hours, multiply it by an estimate for the forthcoming [inaudible 00:07:26] 15 requirements. Multiply those out and you get 22 and a half hours estimate for the task. That’s intended to be a mean value. That can be multiplied by whatever the ratio is or between the median and the high estimate. In this case, I put in 0.25 in addition to 1.25 to give me 28 hours estimate conservatively for this task. Then to implement these calculations, it’s necessary to have a copy of this column over into the work column. You’ll notice that I put a little preface in front of the names of columns. This entry means that it’s custom number three column. This one’s custom number 11 column. There are others that begin with letter T meaning they are text columns. I do that because it makes it easier to interpret the formulas that are in the headers of the columns.

Oliver: What I’d like to do in order to have control over every part of a task, I put in the detail view down at the bottom and put in the task usage view. I’ve added numerous columns to it so that we can see every piece of the template, of a task. At the end, what we can do is we can get the uncertainty ratio that’s accumulated from all the detailed tasks onto the summary. That becomes useful when we make the analogous schedule. The analogous schedule is composed of the summary tasks out of the parametric estimating. For instance, here’s one for designing, which is 727 hours. Here’s the analogous estimating in which we’re using the summary tasks and there’s the 727 hours for designing. If we look at developing, that’s 814 and for analogous estimating, we just multiply the estimates by a factor such as 1.5, meaning that we believe in this future project developing will take 50% longer than it did in the past medium sized project.

Oliver: That gives us 1,221 hours and moving that into the conservative estimate column, that’ll be 1,257 hours. For conservative estimates throughout the schedule, then we would copy the high estimate into the work column. When we do that, the Gantt bars then extend beyond the baseline values for conservative estimates. Now I can see what happens to the finish dates.

Oliver: Let’s just go back into some misconceptions. Many project managers make schedules where they estimate durations, but there are better ways. Let’s take an example. Let’s take a task which takes 20 work hours to complete, and we’re doing for work hours per day, which is then 50% assignment units. If we dedicate eight hours a day, well, four hours of that eight hours a day, that would take five work days. In other words, one week. But if we’re assigned on multiple projects and we have two tasks, which we have to move ahead concurrently, then each task would take two work weeks. If we have three assignments still doing four hours a day, it would take three work weeks for each of those three current tasks. In each case the estimate was 20 work hours, so work is stable and based on actual work is improvable. Durations on the other hand depend on simultaneous activities and the duration estimates are not objectively improvable. So it’s better to use work estimating and work updating and that sort of qualifies a person to consider themselves as at least an intermediate scheduler.

Oliver: In order to improve precision of estimating and updating, it’s a good idea to decompose work into two parts. The first is the level of effort. This is time not allocable to a particular task. For instance meetings. You may discuss numerous tasks, several projects and you can’t really allocate parts of a meeting to each project. Another level of effort is status recording and interviewing and attending corporate meetings. The other part is the time available for actually producing task results, task objects and we call that network. Gross work is the sum of network and the level of effort. Gross work then adds up to the standard day eight hours per work day.

Oliver: Pre-scheduling tasks, what we wanted to use is a median network and then because of the difference between median and conservative, we can add those extra arts together to make an estimating uncertainty buffer. Before that buffer, we can put in a risk reserve, because you may have a risk registry and many of the risks that you identify have potential for causing delay and they have a likelihood of recurring. If you add the potential delay times its likelihood and you add that up across the risks and the risk registry, you’ve got a piece of time that you expect to need before you can deliver the product. That is a reserve that really needs to appear in the schedule in order to be consistent with the risk registry.

Oliver: Labor costs depend on the gross work. The gross work is the network plus level of effort. How do we get started? First of course is that you need to set up a schedule template or adapt one such as those that are available when you first start Microsoft Project. Next you want to look back at a recent medium-size past project to use for developing the estimating data in the template. You can break down the duration of the past project according to the summary tasks and then break down the summary task durations to task durations. However, I’ll caution, it’s a good idea if you have waiting times in the schedule such as awaiting a contract approval, resource availability, delivery of materials. It’s better to use lags on task successors rather than to expand the duration to cover that time.

Oliver: If you have in the past project some times where you were waiting and it was unexpected, then it’s best to insert an extra task in the schedule that will become your template. The reason for that is so that we can inactivate the unusual occurrences and just be left with a template that represents how the past project should have been scheduled. How do you get the data after you’ve decomposed the durations? Well, you want to find the people that worked on those tasks or you find published data. The first thing you want to do with a person you’re going to interview is to explain that you’re going to exclude time for meetings, interviews, status reports, supervision, et cetera. And you’re going to exclude the time in the past that resulted from risks that actually happened because you’re going to be covering those by a separate risk reserve.

Oliver: Then ask for each duration on how many days work actually performed. For instance, if you’ve got a duration of five days that they worked on it, two of the five days because they’ve got multiple assignments perhaps. We want to get the resourcing on the task. How many persons were involved in producing the tasks output and for each person, what was their average work hours per day producing task results? That gives you enough information to come up with a work estimate for each task. But there’s more, you want to ask what is the primary parameter or primary factor for scaling the estimate up or down? And for those tasks that involve quantities, we want to ask how many items correspond to the use of each factor? For instance, how many needs, how many modules, how many customers, how many pages for a document? Now the fewer factors you use for scaling future project schedules, the faster you’ll be able to estimate, but the less precise the estimating will be.

Oliver: Next we need to get the ratio between the median estimate and the conservative estimate. The way to do that is to ask the person you’re interviewing, what estimate would be sufficient 80% of the time and then also what estimate would find the actual work to be less than the 50% estimate and 50% chance it will be higher than the median estimate?

Oliver: Let’s talk about then forecasting of the future project. What I’ll be showing is copying the template to make a future schedule, scaling it, using ratios to get conservative estimates, check the ratios throughout the schedule to see if they’re consistent and just before the product delivery task be inserting three milestones. The first is the deadline and that controls the column total Slack. So we can see how much recovery we need to get the schedule back on track. We’ll have them two shock absorbers. First is the risk reserve and second is the uncertainty buffer. So let me bring those up.

Oliver: Then we’re going to go to the estimating for the template. Now the columns that I’ve shaded are columns that contain formulas. Duration of course, is work divided by the assignment units. Let me go ahead and put the split screen in place, so that’s on the view tab details and then we’re going to use task usage. Task usage is the one where I added some extra columns to it. You can now see that this schedule, it starts today and it runs through December 14th. It’s about an eight or nine months project. Here’s specification task. All right, from the interviews we get an idea that the work is 20 hours, [inaudible 00:22:00] a copy of that in. Let me get these others on. Way to do this is the paper work column, copy it and put it into the work number column.

Oliver: The reason for that is that we want the original estimates to remain stable so that we can come up with increments to improve that estimating data. We need to retain the original estimates and that’s why we put them, copy them and paste them into a separate column. But they’ve got HRS on them and we can’t use them then in a formula. The formula will show an error. On the task ribbon, I can go over to the find drop down and get replace and then put in HRS, oops, and replace it with nothing and do that for the T 21 column. That’s the text 21 work number column and replace all and it says 57 tasks have had their HRS removed. There we have the numbers that can be used in the formula and now the formula works without showing an error.

Oliver: If we’ve got 28 hours and if the task involved in this case 10 specifications and that would be 2.8 hours per item and that’s the objective of this view is to get to these a unit effort values. Now I’ll to go and make a specific schedule out of this template. File, save as. I’ll put it in there. Again, let’s call this the Wizzbang23 plan and get it clear on there. And then I’ll add development.

Oliver: Now we have the specific schedule and so there’s the 28 hours. We need to now change over to the 05 view and there’s not much that you have to add in order to scale. Here’s the 2.8 and the 10 specifications we were dealing with in the template. But in the specific schedule, well, we may have 15 specifications and that means that the estimate would be 42 hours for that task. Let’s say that the person interviewed identified that, well, the difference between median and conservative might be 40%. Then we’ve got 58 hours for the conservative estimate and we can copy either of those into the work column. We can copy the whole column into work. That’s how the scaling occurs.

Oliver: If we have a task where it always takes about the same amount of time, like seven and a half hours to come up with the schedule, then we would have a one in the template and a one in the specific schedule. That would mean, it’s 7.5 hours for scheduling in the new project. If things are a little difficult and it takes 25% more, all right, then we’re about nine and a half hours and those can be copied into work to re-estimate the whole schedule. After that’s done we can then go ahead and look at the 06. Here we are with the 06 and we came up with the estimate of 42 hours. But what happens is the estimate isn’t too good. Maybe the actual hours comes up with 50 work hours. We’ll say, all right, zero remaining, which means that task was finished. All right, if that task was performed without special considerations, without special problems, like we had to change the resource or the scope changed or some other uncommon case, then we would not use that data for improving the template. But if we had a common occurrence, we could change that to a yes.

Oliver: Then there’s the 10 items in the template, 15 in the specific schedule and that would say what we really want to do is change the number that we’re using for making future estimates into not 28 hours but 30 hours. Each time we get new information we can increment this column and that means that just like an averaging, every time you add another piece of data to an average you have less and less influence on the data. That’s why the new work number would be going down, all the new data, to now we can take the, not 32, take that value and we can go back into the template for that. I got to get into the template, it’s going to bring it up.

Oliver: Here we are back in the template and we’re looking at that same task and we want to be in the 04 view. We can now go to the work number column and where it used to be 20, we can put in the improved value, which is 30. Now, future estimates would use that 30 and therefore three hours per specification. There we are, we’ve got the schedule in the template producing data for the specific project. We can use actual work data to improve the estimating data, put it back into the template for future projects. That way we have closed the loop between estimating and tracking and the result is the estimating data gets better and better the more experience we get in using the template.

Oliver: Let me just get back to the specific project and we’ll take the median values throughout the whole schedule, copy those and put them into the work column. Nope, that’s the parametric. We’ve got to get back out into the specific schedule. Where did that go? Here it is. I’m in this specific schedule and I want to get the 05 view. I want to get the median values, copy those into work and that gives me the schedule. This is not going out to March of 2021. All right, and this probably it’ll go back to zero if I’m going to start the project. If I go back to the Gantt chart, I can see this project begins today. Well, I’m going to show some updating and so I need this project to actually begin about a month ago. I’ll go ahead and do that. Project start, I’ll change it from 4/15 to 3/15. That didn’t work. Let’s try it again and put in my start? That was fun during live prize three if in, put it right. Well, we’ll just do it and pretend that we have gone into the future a little bit. Because what I need to do is to set the status date and I’ll move that to today and then move it out a month.

Oliver: There we are. I would like to see the status date. There it is. It’s that vertical line. The way I get that is format grid lines, grid lines. Then way at the bottom is status date, but I can select a line to show my select the doc dash dot dash and that’s how I get these, not dot dash, but I get a series of dashes. I don’t know why there’s a difference. That enables me to see how much the project has in the past. Now before going ahead, what I want to do is two additional things. One is I want to set the values at the bottom for reserve and assignment units. Then I want to set the deadline and then we’ll do some updating. Let me go down to the bottom of the schedule. There we are. Deadline. Right now I’m in the 03, there’s my deadline column, but I want the date that the last task finishes before we have delivery of the product to the customer. In this case production started. That would be the delivery task. I’ll take that finished date, copy it into the deadline.

Oliver: There we are and now the total slack, those that my project is not slipping, it’s not behind times, there’s no recovery necessary. For the risk reserve, I put predecessor, in this case, I’ve made it two weeks, let me change that to three weeks. That was the sum of potential delays times, well, likelihoods added up and then we get the uncertainty buffer. Before that, what I need to do is to run the schedule with the conservative estimates and then the median estimates, take the difference and put a constraint on this task that is in the future. A little further. That then gives me a compressible buffer, whereas the risk reserve is near an inflexible reserve, which I change manually. To get those dates, what I need to do is switch over to the 05 and I’ll take the high estimates, copy of those, put them into work.

Oliver: I just noticed a problem. I see a little wiggly line under the finish date on the first task. That means one of my summary tasks has had a date back dated and that is causing a conflict between calculated and manually scheduled. Let me just take a look and insert type. Around, no, I want constraints so I’ll hide that. Put in constraints and constraints type and then we’ll have a look down through here until we see one… Nope, that’s constraint types. Let’s hide that. What I’m trying to do is figure out which ones are manually scheduled. What would that be? Hmm. I thought it was type, task type, that’s what I want. We’ll go with mode. There’s that push pan I don’t want. Not clear where it’s coming from. See if I can just change it to auto schedule. Oh, here we are.

Oliver: We’ll go up to the top, look at the bottom. With conservative estimates, I’ve got a finish date of 6/21 no, 6/18 so I just write that down, 6/18/21, all right. Then I’ll take the median estimates, copy those, put them in work. I’ve got three finish 24/20. Now, that’s unreasonable. I would have to go through the schedule and figure out why I’m getting such a big change. In order to continue, however, with the download, what I’d like to do is go down to the bottom and let’s put in an arbitrary one month’s delay. I’m talking about the uncertainty buffer and I would like to be doing this in 04. Now I want to go down to the Gantt chart. There I am and what I’ll do is I’ll put in a start date there of 3.5/21. It would give me a constraint, a start little earlier than constraint. There’s the deadline. It looks like my moving around has changed, I’m going to put that back into the deadline. Basically, we’ve got the deadline lined up so that my total slack is okay. I’ve got a reserve of three weeks and I’ve got an uncertainty buffer between conservative and median estimates, I think half that difference, put it in here, there’s a compressible buffer.

Oliver: Now let’s do that updating. For updating, I’ll go to a view called tracking Gantt and we’ll have a look and see if we’ve got the, here are the bars and looks like I’m on daily, I’m going to change that into weeks. I would like to have the Gantt chart, the grid lines showing up. There we go. We change the scale on this from 100 down to 75. That brings things closer together so we can see them. Now we’ll just do the update. We’ll select all and in the task ribbon, hit mark on track. How about I go back and set the baseline first. All right, so that would be project, set baseline and hit that with an okay and then I want to set baseline one for history purposes. There they are. Now what I’ll do is do that updating, mark the whole schedule and the tasks I’ll mark on track.

Oliver: Oh, problem. You don’t want to be on the top line when you do that. Let’s try it again. Mark On Track and it’s still showing the whole schedule all the way down to general design. That’s because I put the status date out into the future. Well, let’s take this two tasks and make them zero and then those tasks, we’d have to do some updating. The actual start may have been a little late, all right. Instead of 4/24, let’s say that’s 4/30. 4/24, we’ll start it a little bit late. Then what we should have to do, because this is incomplete work and it’s in the past, we need to move it out into the future. So we can select the whole schedule and move incomplete parts to the future. Now this schedule has now been updated correctly. We did not enter percent complete.

Oliver: Now I’d like to discuss that a little bit. Let me get back to the slides. We do want to update schedules correctly, we’re going to execute the schedule using median estimates and that means putting in actual start, actual work, remaining work. When we do that, if we see that the peak unit’s differ from the assignment units, then we need to make an adjustment to assignment units. This means that the person was putting in more time per day or less time per day than had been planned. When we get to the first task that uses each factor or parameter, then we may see, oh, well it’s not really 15 specifications, maybe it’s 17 or maybe it’s 13. Well, we could put that new number into all the other tasks that are dependent on the number of specifications so during execution of the project, the scheduling becomes more precise.

Oliver: Similarly, when we finish each task, the first task is done by a particular resource, we could go to them and say, “Well, how many hours per day really are you going to be putting into this project going forward?” We can take a look during updating at the buffer and if the project has expanded and penetrated the buffer by a third, we can plan recovery. If it expands past two thirds, then we can implement the recovery plan and get back to a full side buffer needed at that time. The estimating data we showed that how we can take actuals put in a yes and if we want the data increment the observations and get a new number, which we can copy and paste into the template.

Oliver: The big news there is now the updating and estimating cycle is a closed loop and estimating data gets better and better. Now in order to make this thing work, what we’ve had to do is retain the work, because putting in new values for actual work will change the work value, so we have to capture them before we start. We put those into a work number column and then we have to take the HRS off and we replace HRS with nothing.

Oliver: Now, how do you make an analogous schedule? Let me show that. Here’s my Wizzbang schedule and what I’ll do is take a look at just the summary tasks. All right, to do that, I would go to view outline and look at level two. There are the summary tasks. What I can do is copy. I don’t want to do this in the… I want to do this back in the Gantt chart view. Now I can take the summary tasks, the work and the duration copy of them, put down below the schedule, paste them and now I have converted the summary tasks into detail tasks. If I go to the scaling view, oops, we got to go back to 04 and find out if I’ve not worked on this and I copy that into the… Well, I just want to do the part here in work number and I don’t know what happened, copy. There they go.

Oliver: Do you remember how we got rid of the HRS? Selected those values and on a task we can drop down and replace the HRS with nothing in that column, replace all and nine replacements have been made. There we are, but we need to have some values in here, one and put that down. All right, now we’ve got the work per item, which is the same as the work when we’re doing analogous estimating. We then go to the 05. What we can do is say, “Well, how many are there in the analogous schedule?” Except instead of putting in quantities, we’ll put in a multiplier like 1.25. Then the 812 hours becomes 1000 and we can also do the conservative estimates. I’ll skip that for now.

Oliver: If we take the median estimates and put those into work, we could then see the task has increased in size. What we need to do then is go to the Gantt chart view and we want to put in predecessors that cause the analogous schedule to have tasks that finish at the same time. Here we have 3/15. That’s good. The initiating, we want that to 4/24, so that’s okay. I’ll put on 60 there. All right. Then the designing or designing finished 10/28. I’ve put in 61 on one that, 10/23. Now, we don’t hit exact match, I mean, within a day. All right and I’ll just pull those data on and I’ll make them link together in the task. There we are and then we can go back and check and see if the dates match up. If they don’t, then I can put in a lead or a lag until the analogous schedule has the same dates as the parametric estimate. Then if we take a look at that, right, we’ve got a schedule and we can put in increases or decreases. If we have a baseline, we can see how the schedule is growing or collapsing depending on what kind of multipliers we put in there.

Oliver: I’ll wrap it up at that point. I do want to say that there are those recording views you can consider, with the schedule that’s useful for negotiating on date, scope, resources. The parametric schedule is what you want to use in running the project schedule, executing the project. Then of course, what you would want to do is file organizer in order to copy the views from my schedule into some other schedule. The way to do that is to begin on the right hand side and copy from my schedule into your schedule, whatever that schedule is. You got to begin from the right and go to the left. If you were to copy the view first, then your columns would lack column names and the formulas would be missing, so it’s very important to begin from the right. From get back to the slide and get down to the end.

Oliver: Here’s what we got showed in this slide, this gives you a summary of what we went through to get median estimates and conservative estimates into the template. What we’re talking about is using median estimates, work estimates for running a project because it’s incorrect, but finishing tasks on time produces an on time project. The reason is because people will delay starting tasks that have conservative estimates and then when a surprise comes up, now they’ve got to rush, take shortcuts and that increases the error rate and it just gets worse and worse. We do want to update not by percent complete but by actual start, actual in the remaining work. All progress must appear in the past, all incomplete work’s got to be moved out into the future. We adjust as we get through the first instance of a factor, in the first instance of a resource being used and that focuses the rest of the schedule.

Oliver: That’s what you’ve seen, is the analogous and parametric estimating, basing the data on a past medium sized project and scaling it, having a risk reserve and a buffer and the result is you’ll probably be bringing projects in on time with a very high percentage, 80%, 90%. Of course, there are other things you can do at that point to bring the schedule in, but I better warn you that if you do this, you could end up with BRPs, which are bonuses, raises and promotions. I think that if you want it, it’s good. What may happen is you’ll be assigned more projects, more complex projects, programs, portfolios and who knows what next. That’s a thank you. Back to Kyle. Go ahead.

Kyle: Thanks Oliver. For those of you that are interested, Oliver’s contact info is on the screen now. There’s a screenshot button at the top of the viewer window and that’ll take a snapshot of that so you can save it to your desktop. Oliver thanks again for the webinar. We really appreciate it and thanks for sharing the template and the presentation slides with the audience as well. We are going to make those available to everyone today and for those of you claiming the PDU credit for today’s session, I’ll get that info back on the screen for you now.

Kyle: All right, if you missed any of the session, you’d like to go back and review anything that Oliver shared with us, the recording will be posted @mpug.com in just a couple hours and you’ll receive an email with a link to access that. MPUG members have access to the full PDU eligible library of on demand webinar recordings on mpug.com. That’s also where you’re going to be able to download this template as well as the presentation slides from today’s session.

Kyle: We also have some great coming up on the calendar. I am just now chatting over a link to everyone to get to the calendar and be able to register for these upcoming events beginning in two weeks, Ira Brown will return for part two of his Beyond Macros webinar presentation and this is automating Microsoft Project for non-techies. We’ve got a great response from the first session and Ira decided to add onto that with this additional session, so you can do the first one now and register and attend the part two in two weeks. On May 13th, Rafael Santos will return for Visual Awesomeness, enhancing your project online and power VI reports with custom visuals. Be sure to register for those and we hope to see you there and that does it for today’s session. Once again, thanks so much, Oliver. I’d like to thank everyone that joined us live as well as those of you watching on demand. We hope you have a great rest of your day and we’ll see you back for our next live session. Thanks.


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